MR.MIAMI is pissed at Freestyle industry people

[mrmiami]

I'm late to post this here, but I think ALL Freestyle message boards should have this for a good read, or at least a discussion maker. Please post your comments, good, bad, indifferent. Share your views.

part 1

AN OPEN LETTER FROM STEVE "MR. MIAMI" O'NEILL TO ALL FREESTYLE ARTISTS, PRODUCERS, DJ'S, REMIXERS, MANAGERS, AGENTS, AND FANS

I was going to start writing about the music business again last spring because of some of the dealings and experiences with some Dance Music acts/artists, and their perception on bookings, promoters, nightclubs, and the REALITY of what really is going on, but decided against it until last night, New Year's Eve 2008.

Let me preface by saying this is a long commentary piece. Before I really get into things, grab a drink and a snack, or print this out and take it in the crapper with you, then you can use it to wipe your royal ass. The difference with this writing compared to say my M.H.T. (Miami Hot Traxx) or D.M.A. (Dance Music Authority) days is I'm not trying to ruffle the feathers of anyone in particular, hurt anyone's feelings, or their chances of making it. Obviously the people who have sparked this writing will know exactly who they are, and the ones I originally wanted to write a similar piece about may even feel this is directed at them, good –it is! Not only is this for them, but it is for everyone who is in, or considers themselves in the music business, even on our level, and the fans. Look by no means is Steve "Mr. Miami" O'Neill a perfect person, or the almighty knowledge holder, but I have to tell you in the last few years I have gone through some major personal, mental, and psychological changes. My views, and outlooks on life, business, etc… have changed, and believe it or not I'm now open to different options, views, and check this out... I know subscribe (and believe) everyone one has an opinion –or should I say right to an opinion or view on something and everything, whether it's right or wrong, and it's not for me to judge. What I'm about to touch on doesn't make me or anyone else right, but I want to shed some light, maybe inspire someone, or give people things to think about, because life is really about being a good person. (wow what a load of shit that was huh? Nah, I actually do believe everything I just wrote, but… 5 – 10 -15 years ago –yea that would be a crock of shit –that coming from naive kid.). So please allow me to share some things with you, and maybe, just maybe open your mind, and your heart.

Now even though I am a dj, producer in music and video, remixer, promoter, etc… this commentary piece isn't just about music either, but a single lesson, or lessons, we can all use, capitalize on, and –get this make money with, but you have to APPLY it for it work!

Now let's learn about the law of compensation. Feel free to read the official essay by Emerson on the "Law of Compensation" (it's very wordy, but worth the read), me –I'll just break it down for you and give you the gist of it. Bottom line –go up and beyond the call of duty, perform your job (your labor of love) in total harmony, have enthusiasm doing what you do --you'll be surprised how the people around you become enthused too –and how easier it is to sell yourself, a product, an idea, or a service. Also, BE POSITIVE! Be as positive as one can be as it does wonders for people. Think about when things are going great and how you feel, and what you can actually get done and achieve. It truly is amazing! Finally, be honest with yourself, and the people you come in contact with –which leads us to the ultimate rule of life –actually "The Golden Rule". Treat people how you wish to be treated. No transaction should be done in slight, but fair to both parties, or your business and/or relationships will not be long term, and healthy for you. If you follow the above paragraph you will receive opportunities, increasing and continual returns that you can take to the bank!

Why do most people get into the music business? First, you would have to say they love music. Second, I would say make money, become a star, have a hit record, do shows (oh shit we will get back to that one in a minute). Third, and most are not honest enough with themselves –and would never think about this but in reality –we're human, and it's okay – to feed your EGO, you just have to keep it in check –even me!

Now I don't want to write a book on this, not right now anyway, so I will now get into my main reason for writing today. By the way it is January 1, 2009 at 10:30am in the morning –I had two gigs that I was hired to do for New Year's Eve. One was a show for an artist I manage, and the other was a DJ gig. I had a few beers and a shot, as I wasn't looking to get drunk, as I had made plans to go work on some video projects in my studio on New Year's Day and I didn't need, or want a hangover, so I policed myself. I thought about this all night, during sleep and when I got up in the morning.

As a lot of people out there may know, I have been booking shows for Dance Music artists in Philadelphia, PA –Freestyle artists to be specific. I'm really trying to build something, not just for me –but the music, the artists, the dj's, --oh wait check this out, and most importantly the fans of Freestyle music.
I want to break a few things down. MYSELF, the Route 1 Café, Dj White Lightning, Dj Danski, and the others who help out with promoting freestyle are not getting rich off promoting Saturday nights –in fact the only one that may make a few hundred bucks every Saturday is the venue. Trust me, I have a great deal that not many club owners would agree too, but I have yet to make any real money, as this is a work-in-progress, building it from the ground up if you will, so maybe one day, and one day soon. This didn't happen overnight, I –me, "Mr. Miami" put his OWN money and others (friends money) interested in supporting Freestyle music --oh yea, and they want to make money too I'm sure. I mean they see all these mega shows at major nightclubs and arenas, and think oh shit people are getting rich. Shit, I think it some times –then it hits me. I sit back and really start crunching the numbers and I have to tell you –yea they pre super high artist budgets, as the artist is looking to cash in (all of them), building rental, sound and lights, union fees, insurance, and advertising, all the above is very expensive. I would easily say that these shows are pobably not making as much money as you, or I may think. I mean who is as stupid as me to do a deal that could generate some decent money with RT 1 CAFE, but with my overhead for bookings, and what we draw doesn't level out and I either end up borrowing money to payoff the artists, or rarely may owe an artist $100 or $200 –which is no big deal –IF YOU HAD IT TO LOSE IN THE FIRST PLACE! And if I don't do it, we screwed no one will come out. I'm upfront, I'm honest, I know the artists may think I'm cheap, or taking advantage of them –I'M NOT, and I HAVEN'T!

Now at this point, I realize this is NOT just about me. The artists are people too, they have wants, desires, needs, and would like to make money also which is what it is really all about, which there is nothing wrong with. Plus who am I to tell the artist what they should charge? I can only speak to when it is situational to RT 1 Cafe. Everyone has bills, responsibilities, I hear you –me too! For this thing to continue we really need to work together or there will be one less place to do shows –or even that will play Freestyle music. Trust me; you already know there aren't too many places around no more, especially in Philly with an occasional Freestyle night or show. Everyone wants to "hit it", or "bang'em" for a booking with a huge payday, but seriously let's look at the economic situation, and it ain't bullshit, it is REALITY –like it or not! Let's really look at what goes into doing this, even on the small level, but "large" level (for what it is we are doing) we are currently doing things on.

As everyone has been feeling the economic pinch, things are even crappier and tighter now then ever because people aren't going out as much, and they are not spending as much at the bar. In fact, I have noticed a lot of people already have their groove on when they get to the bar. They are buzzed or drunk from drinking at home or worse in their car in the parking lot. Is $2, $3, $4, $5, $8 really too much to ask for a drink. It could be worse you could be in New york paying $8 - $10 for a bottle of beer. I mean someone has to pay the rent, utilities, insurance, buy drink and food inventory, to live the American way of life and make money, to support his family and live the good life. Is that really wrong? You want to get paid for the work you do at your 9-5 job or your club gig. We book entertainment to draw people to the venue, to drink, eat, socialize, have a good time, and hopefully make a few bucks for everyone. The rule of thumb in nightclubs is that the entertainment costs should at least break even at the door (charge/cover), thus bringing in clientele to the establishment, to show them a good time, and –get this, MAKE MONEY! By having a venue, people have jobs... bartenders, waitresses, bar backs, cooks, DJ's, clean up crews –and even further people at the utility companies, advertising agencies, radio stations, taxes, government, etc… Think about how BIG of a picture it really is, even the little Route 1 Café contributes to society. The gist of the story is that every person --no matter employee, owner, customers, act, all plays into the ongoing life of our society. Think about it, it really is that big!

part 1

 

[mrmiami]

part 2

This brings us to the guest list or VIP list, as most Clubs / Promoters use this as a promotional technique to get customers into their establishment, usually at a discount rate to get people in the door, still grab some cover, and get people to drink and eat food. A true, free VIP list gets one in without paying any cover, and quite honestly is taking for granted. I offer all the acts / artists / producers / promoters / industry types FREE VIP all the time and try and give them perks when I can of free drinks and other amenities. I –we need these industry people to come out, it helps build the night, the music, their visibility too. This all helps build the night and hype, especially when you never know who will be showing up at the RT 1 CAFE, shit I don't know most of the time who is coming until they get there. I really try to treat them like VIP's and I really do appreciate their efforts and their support to show up, when there are hundreds of places they could be. Regular and hardcore fans DESERVE to be on that VIP list as well, without them we are not able to keep striving on, BUT someone has to pay for the entertainment. It would be one thing if everyone ate and drank like fishes and the bar ring could justify the entertainment costs like the old days, but people are NOT spending like they used too. Do you know how many people know, or know of "Mr. Miami", or any other employee at the venue or artists who may be performing and think they should be in free –but not only themselves their entire entourage. I would love to let everyone in free EVERY week, just to have everyone there would be great, but we wouldn't last two weeks. I really try and balance things out, and trust me it is hard.

Now a question for you… Do you really have a clue to why an artist, or should I say how much an artist should get paid or is worth? Most use what other artists receive for bookings and for some reason think they are due the same thing. Why is that? The honest truth –everyone, every show is situational! This means different venues, different promoters, different areas do better or worse, but at least people are trying to do something. Different artists draw better (means brings more people) than other artists, as many factors go into an act drawing including radio play (past or present), charting, awards, etc… Obviously all of those just listed mean you have an artist who has or had hits and for the most part will outdraw most newer acts –except under the rule that some, very few, artist hustle their music, their cds, and really try to promote their shows. Why do acts/artists think that because they have a show, a paid show, that they have to do nothing but show up, get paid, perform and leave? Do you know how many times this happens? It really makes no sense for new or even older established acts to do this, unless that is if they have another gig and have to be somewhere else –not home! Or how about not promoting even on a small level the show by using your myspace account, bulletins, some emails, phone calls, will it really kill you to help make your show better? You have to work with the clubs / promoters, or you won't be working and building your empire, especially in these times, we are all feeling the pinch. Just because you got 1, 2, 3, 5 grand in the past, doesn't mean you can always get that. You are ONLY worth what YOU can bring to the table. That is a fact of life in or out of music --and more importantly bottom line the economy believe it or not. Let's review that again… YOU ARE ONLY WORTH WHAT YOU BRING TO THE TABLE!

Since when has it become acceptable for a Dance Music recording artist to stick up and indirectly or directly rob promoters and nightclubs, or fans or yourself, by over charging and under delivering at the show? Now wonder your booking schedule is not what it used to be, as you sit at home beating yourself up because you don't have enough money as you wish. Blame the club, blame the promoter, blame the agents–HEY check this out BLAME YOURSELF you selfish bastards, there's enough blame and finger pointing to go around! For this to work, this MUST be a team effort, or it won't last –trust me.

I am throwing daggers, sure I am, and to be honest I'll throw daggers at myself, as I have and still do (not as much as I used to), because I'm not the best promoter out there, but I'm trying, are you really trying? Even the music industry has changed immensely over the last few years with the internet and digital technology, we ALL must adapt, or you will not survive, and you will be a disgruntled person. I have always wanted to "be the man", without "being the man". What that means in a nutshell, I want to be creative, and productive, but I really didn't want to do the business side as much, to deal with the headaches and all. What I FINALLY realized fourteen weeks ago, IF I was ever to be SUCCESSFUL (in my mind and world) that only one person was going to bring me to the promise land and that is ME! For me, no one or nothing stands in my way anymore. I have been blessed with more talent than a pool of dozens of people. Through the school of hard knocks I have taught myself by trial, error, failure, and successes what I know and possess. I wanted to and became a DJ after a weekly reader in grade school which featured legendary DJ Wolfman Jack. I loved music, and noticed it was an easy way for girls to come talk to me, as I was super shy, even after they would talk to me. I didn't break my shyness shell until 25, which I could've been dangerous if I was more outgoing earlier on in my life. I started to promote and book shows back in the early 90's. I started my own tip sheet so I could get free records that I liked, because I was spending way over my limit in mail order from Florida. I would type up the Miami Hot Traxx charts on my typewriter and sent them to over 100 labels, producers, djs, and fans free of charge. I then expanded the tip sheet with articles and my ever so famous commentaries. I then became friends with Bibi LaReid who worked at JFL records distributor in Florida, who in a mutual exchange for buying records at wholesale prices, I would in turn expose him and the retail outlets in Philadelphia and South Jersey to JFL, where they now could buy all the latest Freestyle music, and would also hook up Indy labels with JFL for distribution. I remember going to clubs, and skating rinks and me and my fellow DJ friends (especially DJ White Lightning Mark Steward) would bust on the DJ's for what they played, and how they played it trying to mix –even though listening to my old tapes we SUCKED! We would go to record stores in Philly and stump the managers and buyers with our knowledge already knowing they didn't have or carry the records we bought via mail order from Florida. Eventually, I shared the information with Bibi and he sold a TON of rare Freestyle records to all the local shops, not many people know what we really did to continually help grow freestyle. All the time DJ'ing for $3.35 an hour at USA roller skating rink, or $35 a night at the Electric Playground teen club which did 1200 kids every Friday, like they couldn't pay us more. People used to think I made hundreds of dollars back then, I didn't. Or what about making $50 bucks working in a bar on school nights. Why did I do this? Because I loved music. I was chasing the dream. I was playing and promoting freestyle, I thought I was being edgy and was a top DJ (in my head anyway). What, there is more! I got to work and learn from some of the best producers in my area. I started my own label imprint with my brother and released a dozen cds, even if you or I though they sucked, I did it. I coordinated, produced and paid for my own radio time on a major South Jersey radio station. I wrote for D.M.A. (Dance Music Authority) a nationally distributed magazine. I was given the chance to do Freestyle mix cds for ADAM MARANO'S VIPER / METROPOLITAN, WILLIE VALENTIN'S AVP / HOT PRODUCTIONS, and ROB FEDERICI'S BOCA / HOT PRODUCTIONS record companies, BEFORE Louie Devito and Bad Boy Joe! Mr. Miami was the pioneer of the mix cd in retail! Not to mention, the Viper Mega Mix 1 went "gold" and the best and funniest point I did all the Viper mega mixes on a four-track cassette studio, and only made $300 a cd. Do you know how much a .10 cent royalty that I was offered would've grossed me on Volume 1 of Viper? $50,000!!! I lost thousands of dollars trying to run live shows. I have promoted and tried to do something on every night of the week at different times, and different areas throughout Philly and South Jersey, and had some successes, but failures too. AND WHY? WHY I ASK MYSELF? Because I love the music! And that ain't even all my doings in entertainment. You can buy the book one day –no joke! Over the years, I have learned how to use a computer, and fix them. I have learned probably over 100 programs. I know PC's and Mac. I have 9 pc's and one Mac in my office / studio now. I am a one man production and marketing machine from audio, video, graphics, and text. My video productions and audio releases have appeared on National TV, Pay Per View, Cable, DVD, and digital releases worldwide. I can do websites, print graphics, SEO (search engine optimization), digital download stores, etc... Guess what? I'm not successful where I want to be yet either. But WHY DO I DO ALL THIS? I LOVE IT! I am determined to make ME happen at all costs!

part 2

 

[mrmiami]

part 3

Let's book a gig at the Route 1 Café (or think about another venue and put yourself in each sides shoes –if you will)… So here I have established myself with the manager, and owners of the venue, after running my own shows, on my own dime, and with NO support from the venue, or staff, except for being allowed to use the building and get a very low DJ payout, which most of the times I give to one of my friend DJ's in exchange for their help and talents, and yes I leave with no money --it has happened a lot of the last year. Do I just not do this crap, DJ for an empty room, and at least put the measly DJ pay in my pocket. I did it for one week, I hated it, and committed myself to go ALL-IN, thus our schedule is filled until March 2009 right now. Now I learned, if I don't book a show or event on a Saturday, we really don't draw anyone. It's not like the old days, people would just come out does give us an edge and we do manage to get the old heads out there. BUT, they don't spend as much as say the 21-28 crowd, because the 30 and up crowd now has responsibilities, mortgages, cars, kids, bills, jobs –you know the real world. I can't blame them to be honest, I totally understand, this is where the checks and balance system comes into play as I have learned. Now I'm doing Saturday's at Route 1 on a shoe string or no budget. I now know we have a solid 75 people who come out to shows pretty faithfully, and about 25 industry VIP's. The numbers can also fluctuate with another 25 – 50 people depending on the night, what is going on locally, and what act is booked. Keep in mind, my main form of advertising is word of mouth, email, myspace, text message and phone calls. There is NO money for over priced, under delivering radio advertising (unless you have a killer budget and schedule –which we do not). I spent $3,000 when I booked K7/TKA for 2 shows back in May 2008 on Wired 96.5 and My106.1 and I have to tell you it did NOT help at all. I would've been better NOT doing what I thought was the right thing, but I digress that may not have been the sole issue either. Keep in mind Route 1 can really only hold 300 maximum, so you do the math. Now I go to book artists and every single one is way out of line (in my world at RT 1), thinking what they should receive as payment, and their diluted head count estimate that is coming to see them. Most of the acts, or agents are willing to work with me, some have their mind set and they end up with no booking. I also offer EVERY artist the door –with their OWN people collecting the money. You have to hear these artist how they are so sure it will sell out or we will do "X" amount paid at "X" and how I'm cheap or a fool for not booking them, all the while justifying their costs. Look honestly, I would love to pay everyone top dollar, and guess what in the realm of RT 1 CAFÉ and MR.MIAMI. For the record, I do pay top dollar CONSIDERING the draw of the artists. Back to the door deal, 97% of the artist balk on the door deal, as all of a sudden they are not sooooooo confident they will pack it in now that it is on them, and usually reconsider my offer. I tell them all the same. Take it at this price, and IF you exceed what the average is, or my best estimate I will book you on the spot for another booking at a higher wage. How can I pay a group say $500, and they only do $350 at the door? Or how can that same artist ask for double ($1,000) next time out? Someone explain please.

It's not 1988 any more! Granted a few hundred bucks may not be "worth it" for the artists? WHAT THE f**k DID I JUST WRITE? Let's break it down. What does "worth it" mean? Do you realize that the music game has changed, and you have to maximize your time, money, and efforts? Unless you are some bio-chemical engineer who works on Saturday nights, or a lawyer, or doctor, what is "worth it" for you? I mean is your schedule full? Are you a top seller of digital downloads on iTunes? Is your CD in the top 1,000 on Amazon? Is it worth it to expose yourself, sell yourself to an attentive audience? Ladies and gentleman the game has changed like it or not! I book your act for a few hundred bucks, provide you with free drinks and food from the venue, but MOST OF ALL I am helping you, you are helping me. Let's forget about the last sentence. You are now being exposed to freestyle fans, live in person. Can I tell you about the artists who don't give the audience what they want, because either they are sick of a song, or don't want to be on stage long? Are you fucking kidding me? When you are booked, and promoted (wherever it may be), when you arrive at the club and your name is announced and the crowd reacts, FEEL THE EXCITEMENT! These people CAN'T wait for you to hit the stage! Look people just want to be entertained, and your music is and was a part of a lot of people's lives. Then some artist hit the stage and HALF-ASS it with a poorly planned show tape, or even worse doesn't play the songs people want to hear. WHY? WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? Are you too good to sing those songs –and in full for that fact? How would you like it if you went to the movies and the movie stopped mid show for whatever reason, how would you feel? You would be pissed, maybe furious, and demand a full refund! How do you think the promoter feels? What if you were at a championship football game, a play, a show, and you didn't get a full game or show? Would you feel ripped off? Oh I KNOW you would be! Maybe the club isn't as crowded as you hoped or wished for. Maybe the promoter booked you and didn't know how to promote and you were to just play for him? Isn't his money "worth it" to perform for him, and give 100%? He hired you for a gig –a job. Is 20 or 30 minutes playing to 1 persons really going to kill you? I don't care if it's 1 or 1,000 people, if you hire me I will be there. Regardless you should STILL do your full show, and give the people who did pay and show up the courtesy of your presences and entertainment, why should they be slighted? You never know who is in the crowd, an executive, a possible investor, a promoter, or another club owner. What if you put on a great show, even if no one was there and the promoter or owner really appreciates your efforts and would regardless of the audience on hand still book you. Sounds crazy, but it happens, and it happened to me personally dozens of times in my career in entertainment. If you half ass it up there, you WON'T get additional opportunities or bookings I can guarantee you that! Give me a stage where people WANT to see me or what I do, and I will play as long as they wish, or until I get the axe. When I do my other entertainment stuff, and I'm out there doing my thing, I SELL T-SHIRTS and DVD VIDEOS from when I hit the stage until people leave the venue. I bring someone I trust with me to handle my merchandise and money, everything is accounted for. I make more money selling my merchandise than my payday, EVERY FUCKING TIME –no lie! Once you hit the stage and perform is YOUR time to shine and entertain these people and make them fall in love with you and your music, and probably gain new fans who didn't know you, or your song. As soon as you are done, do NOT go backstage, do NOT leave the venue –stay, have the DJ announce (oh you should announce it too throughout your show), that you will be selling merchandise (wherever you choose) and sell, sell sell, take pictures, sign things, promote yourself. For the next 15 minutes to hour YOU ARE THE TALK OF THE VENUE, it's your most opportune time to CASH IN! You and your music is fresh in their mind, it's called IMPULSE buying! QUESTION? So why do 85% of the artist DON'T sell merchandise? Laziness? Ego? If you can't professional have merchandise pressed, make your own! Burn cds at home, make up some iron-on t-shirts, use Café Express (if they are still around), and offer them at the shows. Also, synergize!!! Sell merchandise on your website, myspace, facebook, email, offer mail order, iTunes, etc… And make sure you tell people where they can buy it. Take the time, IF YOU DON'T, MOST LIKELY NO ONE ELSE WILL! Remember, YOU really do control your own destiny!

 

[mrmiami]

part 4 of 4
Did you bring your pictures that have your name, logo, website address, myspace address, email, booking information on it? Did you bring your sharpie markers? WAIT… did you bring something to sell? Out of the last year only 4 artists have actually brought product to the show and sold their material making them a few hundred EXTRA bucks, and one legend made a few grand doing 3 shows for me in one weekend selling out his large hockey duffle bag at $20 per cd!!! Did you bring a Polaroid or digital camera? People WILL pay for pictures too, if packaged and presented in the right way. WAIT! WAIT! WAIT!!! Even more importantly, and maybe you don't get this, but you now most likely have gained a fan for life –who will if marketed to properly WILL purchase product from you at some point. BE ACCESSIBLE! People eat that up. Back in the day, you could never get to the artist, you could never start a relationship with your customer. Remember a new customer is much harder to get, than to continually sell to your customer base forever. Doing a show ISN'T just about the upfront payday! It's about building relationships, with the clubs, promoters, but most importantly THE FANS!!! THAT'S WHAT IT IS ABOUT! Where else in Philadelphia, PA or surrounding areas are you being booked, or is your music being played? There is plenty of money to be made, BUT YOU DO HAVE TO DO THE WORK!
Granted I don't have all the answers, nor the money to promote Saturday's the way I wish, but I'm out there in the trenches doing the work. Do you go that extra mile, two or three to make your appearance or show successful? Let's work together and make it happen. Do me right, and I will always do you right!

My experiences last night, the way I let it affect me, the way it will affect my future relationships with certain artists, promoters, or nightclubs, I needed to write this –for at the least to get it off my chest and mind at the minimum. I was fucking furious last night. I was upset and disappointed with people, and myself. Why myself? Because I let this affect me indifferently, as I felt if I was at the show being run –things would've been different, and I would not feel that people took advantage of my friend –who frankly is deaf and not from "our world". He's a new promoter of freestyle acts, who does 4-6 events a year, has a huge heart, wants to be involved in entertainment, and for some reason sees what I do, and wants to book the same acts I do Now I have to highly disagree with some of his choices. He wants to make money I'm sure, but I'm sure if he caught the eye of a female –he wouldn't mind that either. BUT, the main reason for this article is how and why I'm upset and disappointed with those artists and some others –and not just from last night, but dealing with a lot of different artist for last year.
And now 8 pages and four hours later, I have completed my thoughts and have shared them with you in minutes. I truly hope I have opened some readers eyes, and mind to really what goes into doing what we do. I hope you consider being fair with the people you deal with, and yourself more importantly.
Have a great 2009 and hope to see you soon at one of the shows at the ROUTE 1 CAFÉ!
Steve "Mr. Miami"
P.S. If you have a comment, or view, share them here!

 

[Rickiemorena]

Lemme just say that I am so honored to be one of the first people to comment lol.

Now here is how I feel, and I'm going to be very brief and to the point about this. To be honest, as much as I still love Freestyle (as it is part of the dance music genre), its not as popular anymore as is Techno/Trance/Dance music of today. Its no where near as popular as Hed Kandi, etc. In other words, the dance music from Europe trumps over Freestyle music of America (and always has). So I see your point about "marketing skills" - in order for a Freestyle artist to keep themselves out there, they should have their agents (or themselves) do that more in order to keep themselves active in the game. You brought out a very good point - its not 1988 anymore. Back then Freestyle was really really big - now its a genre that hardly exists in the music industry, except by the people who help keep it alive (THE FANS).

Lemme also say that there are some artists out there who are mean as hell and who think that they are too big for their own britches. God don't like ugly and what he gives to you can easily be taken away. That's not a threat, that's just the truth.

 

[MIX1027FMDJ]

Been saying more or less what you wrote since 1984.

 

[mrmiami]

Very well said! Thanks for reading and commenting, I do appreciate you taking the time to say something! Yea it seems alot of the older acts have grudges or are disgruntled about the past. What they fail to realize, they can do just as much or even more, especially financially if they would wise up and handle THEIR business. See being an artist really is a business. No one will ever care for a business as much as the owner. 1988 was a different time. They were launched into super stardom, paid nicely, and WHAM it hit a wall, which most didn't take that as a wake up call and re-invent what they were doing, or could do.

Bottom line, they can still make a nice living, they just have to do the work now.

::miami::

Lemme just say that I am so honored to be one of the first people to comment lol.

Now here is how I feel, and I'm going to be very brief and to the point about this. To be honest, as much as I still love Freestyle (as it is part of the dance music genre), its not as popular anymore as is Techno/Trance/Dance music of today. Its no where near as popular as Hed Kandi, etc. In other words, the dance music from Europe trumps over Freestyle music of America (and always has). So I see your point about "marketing skills" - in order for a Freestyle artist to keep themselves out there, they should have their agents (or themselves) do that more in order to keep themselves active in the game. You brought out a very good point - its not 1988 anymore. Back then Freestyle was really really big - now its a genre that hardly exists in the music industry, except by the people who help keep it alive (THE FANS).

Lemme also say that there are some artists out there who are mean as hell and who think that they are too big for their own britches. God don't like ugly and what he gives to you can easily be taken away. That's not a threat, that's just the truth.

 

[mrmiami]

PREACH ON BROTHER!

Been saying more or less what you wrote since 1984.

 

[ronnie d]

You brought out a very good point - its not 1988 anymore. Back then Freestyle was really really big - now its a genre that hardly exists in the music industry, except by the people who help keep it alive (THE FANS).

couldnt have said it any better, thats exactly what time it is !

 

[CPR Jose Ortiz]

I can't believe I read this.
This is like a Jerry MgGuire Disertation Booklet; You...complete... me!

Here's is my take.

If one doesn't have a budget to pull off a Freestyle show, then no one should be willing to take the risk and put one together.

The show is put together not for the "love" of the music. Not to "keep it alive"; It's to make money.

If there is no market for it that is NOT the Artist's fault.

If I called an Artist and booked them for a show and they told me that they wanted a set amount of money, I can either talk them down or tell them no.

There is no negotiation when the night comes and the venue is empty.
One can't expect the Artist to take the loss of pay. Thats the Promoter's issue.

How much is an Artist worth?
Easy. Give me their name!

I remember 4 years ago when an up and coming Artist asked me for $800.00 to play at the Puerto Rican Festival. This. The same Artist who couldn't put any asses in seats.

And don't get me started on the UNISPIRED Artist of today who stands on stage, pumps their fists up in the air (like they just don't care; say hooooooooe!) and expect their audience to go crazy because they drove 6 hours to get to the venue.

You gotta love it when they want credit for something they are expected to do.
What were they going to do? Telephone in their performance?!
If things keep going the way they are it will happen.
(With telephone performances by!)

Pictures? Pressed cds?
rrrright! Whats that!?

Routine!!!
You can't get these lazy Artists to practice a routine if you danced it for them yourself.

Oh. And lets talk about my Old School Artists who like to get (insert vice here!) before they perform, singing verses of songs they only did backrounds in!

Oh yeah. Just what we need; Incoherrent Lip Synching!
AZUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCAH!!!!

 

[mrmiami]

CPR, you are like the sixth person to reference Jerry McGuire lol

Well said. I just want to comment on the love vs money. You're right, I would like to and plan to make money one day. I've made a few bucks here and there, but I'm trying to build something. And yes for things to work from all sides you have to enjoy it, or love it even better. As those emotions MIXED with the work, and the money will complete the puzzle eventually.

Other than that sounds like you've had some experiences like myslef!

Thanks for reading and commenting.

::miami::

I can't believe I read this.
This is like a Jerry MgGuire Disertation Booklet; You...complete... me!
Here's is my take.
If one doesn't have a budget to pull off a Freestyle show, then no one should be willing to take the risk and put one together.
The show is put together not for the "love" of the music. Not to "keep it alive"; It's to make money.
If there is no market for it that is NOT the Artist's fault.
If I called an Artist and booked them for a show and they told me that they wanted a set amount of money, I can either talk them down or tell them no.
There is no negotiation when the night comes and the venue is empty.
One can't expect the Artist to take the loss of pay. Thats the Promoter's issue.
How much is an Artist worth?
Easy. Give me their name!
I remember 4 years ago when an up and coming Artist asked me for $800.00 to play at the Puerto Rican Festival. This. The same Artist who couldn't put any asses in seats.
And don't get me started on the UNISPIRED Artist of today who stands on stage, pumps their fists up in the air (like they just don't care; say hooooooooe!) and expect their audience to go crazy because they drove 6 hours to get to the venue.
You gotta love it when they want credit for something they are expected to do.
What were they going to do? Telephone in their performance?!
If things keep going the way they are it will happen.
(With telephone performances by!)
Pictures? Pressed cds?
rrrright! Whats that!?
Routine!!!
You can't get these lazy Artists to practice a routine if you danced it for them yourself.
Oh. And lets talk about my Old School Artists who like to get (insert vice here!) before they perform, singing verses of songs they only did backrounds in!
Oh yeah. Just what we need; Incoherrent Lip Synching!
AZUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCAH!!!!

 

[Rickiemorena]

I can't believe I read this.
This is like a Jerry MgGuire Disertation Booklet; You...complete... me!

Here's is my take.

If one doesn't have a budget to pull off a Freestyle show, then no one should be willing to take the risk and put one together.

The show is put together not for the "love" of the music. Not to "keep it alive"; It's to make money.

If there is no market for it that is NOT the Artist's fault.

If I called an Artist and booked them for a show and they told me that they wanted a set amount of money, I can either talk them down or tell them no.

There is no negotiation when the night comes and the venue is empty.
One can't expect the Artist to take the loss of pay. Thats the Promoter's issue.

How much is an Artist worth?
Easy. Give me their name!

I remember 4 years ago when an up and coming Artist asked me for $800.00 to play at the Puerto Rican Festival. This. The same Artist who couldn't put any asses in seats.

And don't get me started on the UNISPIRED Artist of today who stands on stage, pumps their fists up in the air (like they just don't care; say hooooooooe!) and expect their audience to go crazy because they drove 6 hours to get to the venue.

You gotta love it when they want credit for something they are expected to do.
What were they going to do? Telephone in their performance?!
If things keep going the way they are it will happen.
(With telephone performances by!)

Pictures? Pressed cds?
rrrright! Whats that!?

Routine!!!
You can't get these lazy Artists to practice a routine if you danced it for them yourself.

Oh. And lets talk about my Old School Artists who like to get (insert vice here!) before they perform, singing verses of songs they only did backrounds in!

Oh yeah. Just what we need; Incoherrent Lip Synching!
AZUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCAH!!!!

Hey CPR, I understand your point but lets rewind back to the "keeping Freestyle music alive comment" that I made in my previous post. I understand that the artist is not doing it for the love of music necessarily (especially now since the genre is not that popular anymore), and that they are out to make $$$, but I think you somehow missed my point here. The FANS ARE the ones who DO keep it alive. How do you think these artists continue to make their money from these shows???

If it were not for the fans, the artists wouldn't get shit, especially since the genre is not as popular as trance/dance/techno music. You have to definitely give props to the fans for allowing the Freestyle artists to continue to make their $$$ because if it were not for us, they wouldn't make shit. They'd be playing to an empty stadium and the money would hardly be there.

So you have to think about this. The fans are the ones who keep this genre alive. Just like how we do in salsa dancing, us salseros keep the genre alive by going out dancing TO the music and by having many many socials around the city. The same thing with Freestyle music, there are people who still do listen TO the music and would like to see their favorite artists perform still.

So I understand your point about its not about the "love" for the music and its about the artists who make their $$$, but still you have to look at the culprit of their continued success, and I'll say it again - if it were not for us fans, they wouldn't still perform their classics till this day.

 

[CPR Jose Ortiz]

Artists, DJ's and Producers want credit for things that they did 10, 15, 20 years ago.
I'm of the understanding that everyone deserves respect and to get compensated. But what have they done for the fan base lately?

You gotta love it when they start regurgitating their resume, talk about what they used to do and get paid back in the day. When demands are being made that include trying to have us pay for them and their entourage's hotel room, liquor bill and traveling expences. And I'm talking about the 3rd dancer's cousin's friend.
(And these are not even the top tier Freestyle Artists)

Compensation for Artists is a tricky thing.

New School on one hand deserves to be paid but most of them are not worth more than
$350.00. And I mean $350.00 or lower.

Im not paying any of you a cent more for walking around on stage and repeating the same lame lines that has the audience leaving early. And believe you me; They do!

AND NO. The roof is not on fire! New School Freestylers are so bad in the performance area that roof doesn't even get warm.

That is not giving the fans their money's worth.

I've been watching all of the YOU TUBE footage for the recent shows.
What the hell are you guys doing? Get that footage off of there.
TERRIBLE!

And they have the audacity to put it on their MYSPACE page.
Thanks for guaranteeing that you'll never get booked.
--------------------------------------------------
The top tier Artists are sometimes over priced. I've gotten quotes for upto $5,000 for someone that won't even sing songs they recorded after 1990.

They feel that no one knows those songs and wont take a chance in performing them.
Well. How are the fans supposed to know the songs if you wont perform them?
They are Freestyle fans and you are in the top tier. They want to see you perform the new material.

The biggest waste of money is having the alleged King of Freestyle perform Karaoke and walk around with his Elvis gut, trying to get the audience to sing all of the hard parts to their song; Lazy!

 

[Rickiemorena]

Artists, DJ's and Producers want credit for things that they did 10, 15, 20 years ago.
I'm of the understanding that everyone deserves respect and to get compensated. But what have they done for the fan base lately?

You gotta love it when they start regurgitating their resume, talk about what they used to do and get paid back in the day. When demands are being made that include trying to have us pay for them and their entourage's hotel room, liquor bill and traveling expences. And I'm talking about the 3rd dancer's cousin's friend.
(And these are not even the top tier Freestyle Artists)

Compensation for Artists is a tricky thing.

New School on one hand deserves to be paid but most of them are not worth more than
$350.00. And I mean $350.00 or lower.

Im not paying any of you a cent more for walking around on stage and repeating the same lame lines that has the audience leaving early. And believe you me; They do!

AND NO. The roof is not on fire! New School Freestylers are so bad in the performance area that roof doesn't even get warm.

That is not giving the fans their money's worth.

I've been watching all of the YOU TUBE footage for the recent shows.
What the hell are you guys doing? Get that footage off of there.
TERRIBLE!

And they have the audacity to put it on their MYSPACE page.
Thanks for guaranteeing that you'll never get booked.
--------------------------------------------------
The top tier Artists are sometimes over priced. I've gotten quotes for upto $5,000 for someone that won't even sing songs they recorded after 1990.

They feel that no one knows those songs and wont take a chance in performing them.
Well. How are the fans supposed to know the songs if you wont perform them?
They are Freestyle fans and you are in the top tier. They want to see you perform the new material.

The biggest waste of money is having the alleged King of Freestyle perform Karaoke and walk around with his Elvis gut, trying to get the audience to sing all of the hard parts to their song; Lazy!

You got me ova here at work cracking up at that last comment! lol Ok you definitely made a point about people not hearing their songs or songs never heard before. All we do get are the same exact songs sung over and over again. But believe me there are fans out there who truly do love those songs and wouldn't mind hearing them over and over again. If these old school artists sung their new songs, the already existing fans may or may not like those new songs, and that's where the artist feels that they are taking a risk by introducing their new material. They want to keep their existing fan base, people who still do like the old school freestyle music, especially because that's where the $$$ are anyway. (I hope that came out clear, sometimes I feel vague when I say stuff but yeah lol).

 

[CPR Jose Ortiz]

Hey CPR, I understand your point but lets rewind back to the "keeping Freestyle music alive comment" that I made in my previous post. I understand that the artist is not doing it for the love of music necessarily (especially now since the genre is not that popular anymore), and that they are out to make $$$, but I think you somehow missed my point here. The FANS ARE the ones who DO keep it alive. How do you think these artists continue to make their money from these shows???

If it were not for the fans, the artists wouldn't get shit, especially since the genre is not as popular as trance/dance/techno music. You have to definitely give props to the fans for allowing the Freestyle artists to continue to make their $$$ because if it were not for us, they wouldn't make shit. They'd be playing to an empty stadium and the money would hardly be there.

So you have to think about this. The fans are the ones who keep this genre alive. Just like how we do in salsa dancing, us salseros keep the genre alive by going out dancing TO the music and by having many many socials around the city. The same thing with Freestyle music, there are people who still do listen TO the music and would like to see their favorite artists perform still.

So I understand your point about its not about the "love" for the music and its about the artists who make their $$$, but still you have to look at the culprit of their continued success, and I'll say it again - if it were not for us fans, they wouldn't still perform their classics till this day.

Don't get me started on the fans.

The fans do keep the music going. They are just not open to supporting New music. The ones that do sometimes create seperation when doing so.

It takes alot of work to get the traditional fans to accept new music as well.
But there is a market for Freestyle in certain areas. Just not sure what the Artists are going to do about it.

My biggest concern though is how the fans are not being protected.

They are being fleeced; Taken for rides and they accept it.
This is my biggest issue with (most) fans.

Many accept everyone and anyone who records Freestyle music, put them on pedestals and then are disapointed when they send them $16 for a fake album they'll never receive.

Yeah. They keep Freestyle alive but what are they actually keeping alive?
Is is the nostalgia of the way they used to feel in 1988? Or is it that they want the new music to continue?

 

[The Riddler]

Finally some real subject matter hope it does not fall on deaf ears.

 

[mrmiami]

Great points!

I agree in one way or another, the artists need to be compensated. How much depends on different variables. You are on TARGET with the $350 price, I actually believe more around $300, but that's me. AND they need to have had at the least an "underground hit" song, more or less a song that has made it on the streets and mix tapes... like your Reinaldo's, and others.

I try to be fair to the artists, but its hard when they bring 4 dancers with them, and then an entourage.

And yes the artists who won't perform their old songs are INSANE! Shit, that is what people know them for. IF they can be creative with their show, then they can introduce new songs sandwhiched throughout their show tape. For those that don't know it's called programming!

Also, I enjoyed your last comment too lol

::miami::

Artists, DJ's and Producers want credit for things that they did 10, 15, 20 years ago.
I'm of the understanding that everyone deserves respect and to get compensated. But what have they done for the fan base lately?
You gotta love it when they start regurgitating their resume, talk about what they used to do and get paid back in the day. When demands are being made that include trying to have us pay for them and their entourage's hotel room, liquor bill and traveling expences. And I'm talking about the 3rd dancer's cousin's friend.
(And these are not even the top tier Freestyle Artists)
Compensation for Artists is a tricky thing.
New School on one hand deserves to be paid but most of them are not worth more than
$350.00. And I mean $350.00 or lower.
Im not paying any of you a cent more for walking around on stage and repeating the same lame lines that has the audience leaving early. And believe you me; They do!
AND NO. The roof is not on fire! New School Freestylers are so bad in the performance area that roof doesn't even get warm.
That is not giving the fans their money's worth.
I've been watching all of the YOU TUBE footage for the recent shows.
What the hell are you guys doing? Get that footage off of there.
TERRIBLE!
And they have the audacity to put it on their MYSPACE page.
Thanks for guaranteeing that you'll never get booked.
--------------------------------------------------
The top tier Artists are sometimes over priced. I've gotten quotes for upto $5,000 for someone that won't even sing songs they recorded after 1990.
They feel that no one knows those songs and wont take a chance in performing them.
Well. How are the fans supposed to know the songs if you wont perform them?
They are Freestyle fans and you are in the top tier. They want to see you perform the new material.
The biggest waste of money is having the alleged King of Freestyle perform Karaoke and walk around with his Elvis gut, trying to get the audience to sing all of the hard parts to their song; Lazy!

 

[mrmiami]

Mixedgal, the artist, if they want to continue have to take that shot. MOST people want to hear some new songs by their favorite artists. Granted not thirty minutes of new stuff. Like I said previously, they have to program their show tape not to bore the artists either.

Also, if the old school artist just wants to do their old songs, that is fine too, but make sure they hit them all when they are up there. If they were smart they would get those old cds and sell them, or do a licensing deal and repress, or have a young hungry producer cut the tracks as similars. Merchandise is a MISSED chance at a lot of extra cash flow.

::miami::

You got me ova here at work cracking up at that last comment! lol Ok you definitely made a point about people not hearing their songs or songs never heard before. All we do get are the same exact songs sung over and over again. But believe me there are fans out there who truly do love those songs and wouldn't mind hearing them over and over again. If these old school artists sung their new songs, the already existing fans may or may not like those new songs, and that's where the artist feels that they are taking a risk by introducing their new material. They want to keep their existing fan base, people who still do like the old school freestyle music, especially because that's where the $$$ are anyway. (I hope that came out clear, sometimes I feel vague when I say stuff but yeah lol).

 

[mrmiami]

Riddler, I kid you not, I have had over 150 responses to posts on message boards, emails, on my blog and text messages. People ARE reading and commenting. I do wish more ARTISTS new or old would pipe in and share their view. Or maybe I hit it on the head and they dont want to look bad and post. But, maybe I --we --all of us wil get through to them and they will step it up!

::miami::

Finally some real subject matter hope it does not fall on deaf ears.

 

[CEESIL]

bottom line, if a price is set and the venue is empty payment is still due in full, you can't expect to make money to pay staff and the entertainment, or pay half to the person like it is all good, it is a verbal contract, this is why a written contract should be made and signed

also if a performer does a tune after 1990 or 1992 i see nothing wrong with that, just don't O.D. on the non hit material..