Pop Artists doing more Freestyle than freestyle artists

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i forgot that i was on c.f and that things could be taken wrong quickly.
the reason for the shoot me comment comes from the fact that we all need to move forward while learning from our mistakes and fix what ever problem we left behind with out it being the anchor that holds us down.
freestyle is not free to style itself we live within the borders of what we think it should always be without letting it just be . I’ve had a million in one metaphors for it and none have penetrated the psyche of the die hard fan without resorting to the original formula. my frustration lies behind the savior complex that tka and many of my peers have been placed in . the new generation is there but they seem to resent the older heads which’s is cool no biggie, but we are all stuck together in this . i welcome growth and the merging of styles if it will help it live longer but how do we make it grow .the time of the edits is gone its corny but if i told that to some one they would say i'm crazy if i said like i have that you need more high profile artist singing or rapping along with us to get more light on us you think that i'm killing the essence of it . if i say go beyond the heartbreak topic to something more light hearted some one will make a comment about my personal love of hip hop and that they think i want to talk bout guns and b!tches .
i was there when this started in some way fashion or form from the kid in the street corner with the radio in his hand to finding one of the the grand dames of this .to being one of the early writers of it .to being mimicked by many. in my story " the book of the third " i speak of an angel who is condemned to walk earth over and over until he rights the wrongs of his life .well i've feel like i have lived forever in this freestyle game. i have seen it all the start for many of your heroes too many to mention and i have seen many go .as many times as i have been disgusted in freestyle i have felt the same for pop and hip hop but i always come back to the latter two cuz they find new ways to inspire me. freestyle is my mafia if you will every time i walk away it pulls me back in not because of inspiration but loyalty to the family .a family thats making all the wrong moves .listen for every great song writer like tony g ["sexual fantasy "the forever album] there is a critic to knock his hustle. for every edwin ramos ["you don't feel it "the forever album] there some one trying to tell him whats freestyle and whats not .do you ever wonder why the greats don't touch us any more .where is joey gardner where is carlos berrios where is tony moran .the answer to that is making money in other fields of music until freestyle picks itself off its pity party tantrum its had with itself .yes listen some of us still flourish in the game but how long will it be before the newer listener says thats it .this weekend i saw this rock docum on vh1 and even rock goes through this but they reconstruct after the destruction .it survival of the fittest here put up or shut up but fight to the death
 
K7 tka said:
i forgot that i was on c.f and that things could be taken wrong quickly.
the reason for the shoot me comment comes from the fact that we all need to move forward while learning from our mistakes and fix what ever problem we left behind with out it being the anchor that holds us down.
freestyle is not free to style itself we live within the borders of what we think it should always be without letting it just be . I’ve had a million in one metaphors for it and none have penetrated the psyche of the die hard fan without resorting to the original formula. my frustration lies behind the savior complex that tka and many of my peers have been placed in . the new generation is there but they seem to resent the older heads which’s is cool no biggie, but we are all stuck together in this . i welcome growth and the merging of styles if it will help it live longer but how do we make it grow .the time of the edits is gone its corny but if i told that to some one they would say i'm crazy if i said like i have that you need more high profile artist singing or rapping along with us to get more light on us you think that i'm killing the essence of it . if i say go beyond the heartbreak topic to something more light hearted some one will make a comment about my personal love of hip hop and that they think i want to talk bout guns and b!tches .
i was there when this started in some way fashion or form from the kid in the street corner with the radio in his hand to finding one of the the grand dames of this .to being one of the early writers of it .to being mimicked by many. in my story " the book of the third " i speak of an angel who is condemned to walk earth over and over until he rights the wrongs of his life .well i've feel like i have lived forever in this freestyle game. i have seen it all the start for many of your heroes too many to mention and i have seen many go .as many times as i have been disgusted in freestyle i have felt the same for pop and hip hop but i always come back to the latter two cuz they find new ways to inspire me. freestyle is my mafia if you will every time i walk away it pulls me back in not because of inspiration but loyalty to the family .a family thats making all the wrong moves .listen for every great song writer like tony g ["sexual fantasy "the forever album] there is a critic to knock his hustle. for every edwin ramos ["you don't feel it "the forever album] there some one trying to tell him whats freestyle and whats not .do you ever wonder why the greats don't touch us any more .where is joey gardner where is carlos berrios where is tony moran .the answer to that is making money in other fields of music until freestyle picks itself off its pity party tantrum its had with itself .yes listen some of us still flourish in the game but how long will it be before the newer listener says thats it .this weekend i saw this rock docum on vh1 and even rock goes through this but they reconstruct after the destruction .it survival of the fittest here put up or shut up but fight to the death
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well spoken k7....
 
K7:

You mentioned something about a rock documentary on VH1. If it was the same one that I saw (the rise and fall of heavy metal), one of the major points of the whole documentary was that a big part of what killed heavy metal was that it became over exposed ("it wasn't just there scene anymore, it was the world's"). I guess the same thing is in the process of happening to hip hop. Many, including me, feel that rap has lost its "luster" now that it's everywhere. The best time for hip hop will probably go down as '93-2001. That was when rap had achieved the ideal balance where it had grown popular enough that many rappers could go gold and platinum without selling out. There was a whole movement going on of hardcore hip hop and rap headz throughout the 90s and it didn't happen overnight. Many old school rappers who never recieved commercial recognition paved the way for this by keepin it real, keepin it street and making the newer generations respect the music and want to be a part of it. People were drawn to rap because of it's hardcore edge and "code of the streets". Now that most of the rap you see on TV is watered down with pop and R&B, it's losing its shine and rappers are finding it a little harder to sell records as much as before. Freestyle tried to water itself down before it had enough of a hardcore following even established and that's why it doesn't get as much respect on the streets anymore. No one wants to be part of a movement where the artists do a little pop with some r&B and some pop house. People wanna feel like they stand for something and in the last 8 or 9 years (actually even the early 90s), freestyle hasn't stood for much of anything except doing whatever it takes to sell a record.
 
I'm actually a pretty good example of someone who had been a hardcore freestyle head for a while, but whenever my favorite artists would come out with something new, it would make me feel like I was crazy for even considering freestyle to be a genre of music. The TKA Forever album made me feel like "If the founders of this music don't wanna do it, then what have I been believing in all this time. Was it all my imagination. Is freestyle even its own genre or just a type of pop music?"
 
here you go ...while visiting ty bless k7 stubbled into this thread

look back and notice that every tka album had just about the same amount of freestyle on each album .the problem is that since freestyle has been on its last leg for a while the savior complex was propelled upon tka and any freestyler coming out as the saving grace of this sound.
most of your comments on hip hop are correct but you can not knock a sound the acts like a liquid because it takes the form or shape of any object its placed in .this is hip hop tenth reinvention of its self we are stuck on our second .there in the fact that our new schoolers are not even new schoolers they are stuck with the older cats in the warp .hip hop has so much variety
southern hip hop..lil jon , outkast
east coast hip hop ..jz 50 puffy.eminem
mid west hip hop.. kanye west common twista
west coast ..dre snoop .
the sound of freestyle are pretty much confined to remnants of the carlos berrios era and traditional.
could you tell the difference in the styles of hip hop yes with freestyle now you can't really cuz it all sort of sounds the same .
forever has gotton heat from jump street it don't bother me .but its funny how you all try to use it as a way to deter me from making a point like its a low blow its not you may find it to have been a unsuccessful album but remember my label was going under at the time so they didn't push the product .as for the panning of it by all of you think of it this way "its a wonderful life "was thought to have been a flop by hollywood standards of the time but 50 some odd years later we play that movie like its a academy award winner which it wasn't .through time that happen to many artist from classical to rock to rap to freestyle .so to quote a rap record "you could hate me now"
................what is is ..hook
 
FreestyleHead said:
I'm actually a pretty good example of someone who had been a hardcore freestyle head for a while, but whenever my favorite artists would come out with something new, it would make me feel like I was crazy for even considering freestyle to be a genre of music. The TKA Forever album made me feel like "If the founders of this music don't wanna do it, then what have I been believing in all this time. Was it all my imagination. Is freestyle even its own genre or just a type of pop music?"
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Beleave me when I say this : Freestyle is gonna come back with a fury SOON. But it wont happen by itself, The artist can only do therer part, the rest is up to the community. Alot of things ARE being done as we speak, but its behind the sceanes. Give it some time and play your freestyle loud. We as a community need to push freestyle like a new drug, spread it around and get it out there, soon fools will come flocking. Here in the west Coast Many projects are in the makeing and months away from being done. Radio is giving it more play and stores are starting to re order stock. Summers comming and there will be more shows, more peeps cruzing the streets bubping it, and many album release dates. The only problem is getting the kids involved again, thats why it must be PUSHED.
 
The west coast situation is not as bad as the east coast situation in regards to this. This syndrome of talking a lot about freestyle music but snaking it on the album is a lot more out of hand on the east coast. In NYC it's like if a freestyle legend is coming out with something new, don't even bother to check it out because it aint even gonna be close to what headz really wanna hear. Word is out on the street and has been out for a while now. It's not even a topic of discussion out there anymore. Everyone has accepted the fact that freestyle fell off hard and was snaked the hardest by its own artists. I know a lot of people who never liked freestyle back in the day, couldn't stand it, but now they say they feel sorry for the music. Even the music's biggest enemies think the whole situation is messed up. That's how far freestyle has slipped. And as far as TKA supposedly having just as much freestyle on this album as their past ones, that's just not true. That's like a girl breaking up with you and saying, "I don't feel like being with anybody right now." Scars of Love had 6 out of 8 being freestyle songs (75%). Louder than Love had 5 out of 10 being freestyle songs (50%). TKA Greatest Hits had every song being freestyle except for 1 or 2. That's probably because all of TKA's greatest songs were the freestyle songs. People play "Give Your Love to Me" and "Tears May Fall" all the time to this day. No one really plays "I Won't Give Up on You". Forever had 2 (maybe 3 if you wanna include When Will I See You Again) out of 12 that were freestyle. Statistically speaking, that's considerably less than usual. Now I know that K7 was saying a couple years ago that One Way Love and X-Ray Vision were not freestyle, but they definitely sounded freestyle enough that the whole world accepted it as without having to argue about it. Maybe they weren't as hardcore freestyle as Tears May Fall or Scars of Love, but still freestyle nonetheless. Another thing I always wondered was why don't they at least put some of the hardcore stuff out on the streets (through mix tapes, etc.) like they do in hip hop.
 
"Who's that Girl" is Freestyle. The only Freestyle song Madonna ever had. Of course at 105 bpms it wasn't as fast as some of the other songs out at the time like Expose's "Point of no return", Noel's "Silent Morning" and so on. Linear's "Sending all my love" was just as slow and is considered freestyle. I would have liked to have seen Madonna cash in when Freestyle was at its peak. She had only that one song and it did hit number one. I guess that was good enough.

As for Britney, "Toxic" has a more breakbeat feel to it. At least she finally did something decent....something more upbeat. Maybe other artists will follow suit so we don't have to listen to that hip-hop / bee bop crap that they play on MTV and radio these days. What ever happened to dance music? Anymore when I walk into a club, whether it is str8t or gay, I have to hear that hip-hop garbage. What is up with that!!!
 
"Borderline" was freestyle also.

BTW... What IIIIIS FREESTYLE (Kenny Guido question?) is a GREAT question.

I remember this SAME debate last year when someone said that Information Society was not freestyle.

I must admit I think that this is one of the most useless arguments I've ever been a part of because the sad truth is that for the most part, NO ONE GIVES A FLYING _ _ _ _ what anyone else thinks (I know I don't). People are gonna believe what they believe and are gonna like what they like.

I think the problem is with the word "FREESTYLE" itself.

Would the music still touch and move us all the same way if it was called by any other name?

The word "freestyle" puts boundaries on creativity and puts limits and walls where there should be none.

The problem is not the music.
 
RoGeReM said:
"Who's that Girl" is Freestyle. The only Freestyle song Madonna ever had. Of course at 105 bpms it wasn't as fast as some of the other songs out at the time like Expose's "Point of no return", Noel's "Silent Morning" and so on. Linear's "Sending all my love" was just as slow and is considered freestyle. I would have liked to have seen Madonna cash in when Freestyle was at its peak. She had only that one song and it did hit number one. I guess that was good enough.

As for Britney, "Toxic" has a more breakbeat feel to it. At least she finally did something decent....something more upbeat. Maybe other artists will follow suit so we don't have to listen to that hip-hop / bee bop crap that they play on MTV and radio these days. What ever happened to dance music? Anymore when I walk into a club, whether it is str8t or gay, I have to hear that hip-hop garbage. What is up with that!!!
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bro, WHOS THAT GIRL is sssssssooooooo NOT FREESTYLE!!!

Nothing MADONNA did is FREESTYLE!
 
KENNY GUIDO said:
For the record, I can name a zillion songs that have the BPM's as freestyle but we wouldn't dare call those groups freestyle!
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Im with Kenny! Freestyle has a formula. We dont just call any misic with 125-140 bpm's freestytle. Its the drum loop, the bass line , the strings / synth claps and hits, thease are all fundamental elements of freestyle. freestyle has a certain formula like a math equasion. you eather know it or you dont. Ive seen people call trance freestyle, and ive even seen people call New Wave treestyle, thats almost understandable, But Madonna??!? The stuff had simularitys yes , maybee some sounds that people can corralate with freestyle or latin heart throb, but no thease songs arnt freestyle.
 
Originally Posted by natural style
I think the problem is with the word "FREESTYLE" itself.

Would the music still touch and move us all the same way if it was called by any other name?

The word "freestyle" puts boundaries on creativity and puts limits and walls where there should be none.
......................................................................................................

ok then read this and you will understand it all easier.
if we read the word correctly i think this subject matter would be resolved quickly .we have to be free of style to truly help freestyle to continue .
creativity come from open mindedness
.... stop pointing fingers
 
break down ot tka albums

.i find it weird that people you who want to prove a point about whether the albums were freestyle or not .but i recorded them shouldn't i know whAT THEY ARE ?
SCARS OF LOVE ALBUM
Scars of Love this song is freestyle no doubt bout that i wort it i should know
2. X-Ray Vision this is not considered a freestyle song by the producer joey gardner or the writer either its considered pop by the standards of the time
3. It's Got To Be Love nope no way
4. Come Get My Love this is freestyle beyond a doubt
5. One Way Love though it has over tones of scars of love in its creation was made to sound more pop for the first year it didn't even get any love by radio until hot 103 started b4 that it was all florida love
6. Tears May Fall freestyle period
7. Someone In The Dark remake of a micheal jackson record on the e.t. soundtrack pop
8. Don't Be Afraid .produced by the the latin rascals and it was meant to be a house record IT HAS DAVID COLE OF C&C MUSIC FACTORY PLAYING HOUSE STYLE KEYBOARD ON THE BREAK
9. Broken Dreams house record by the days standard PRODUCED BY C&C MUSIC FACTORY WHO AT THE TIME WERE ONLY HOUSE PRODUCERS
 
1. I Won't Give Up on You
POP R&B LIKE RICK ASHLEY
2. Are You for Real
R&B REMAKE
3. Something in My Heart
C&CMUSIC FAC POP RECORD
4. Anyone in Love BALLAD
5. Crash (Have Some Fun)
HIP HOUSE
6. You Are the One
REMAKE
7. The Way It Used to Be
POP RECORD THROUGH AND THROUGH
8. Give Your Love to Me
I WROTE IT SO I KNOW ITS FREESTYLE
9. I Can't Help It
TEARS FOR FEARS INSPIRED BALLAD EORO SOUNDING GARDNER AND I WERE GOING THROUGH A DEPECHE MODE FAZE
10. Louder Than Love
SORRY FREESTYLE FAN EVEN THOUGH IT WAS PLAYED AS ONE WE THE WRITERS AND PRODUCERS DON'T CONSIDER IT A FREESTYLE RECORD IT WAS OUR TRIBUTE TO YET AGAIN DEPECHE MODE SO ITS EURO STYLE
.
THE GREATEST HITS HAD TWO NEW SONGS BEING
MARIA ..
K7 FREESTYLE
IS IT LOVE .
FREESTYLE
 
o sit, k7 just gave us a lesson on TKA's music. alot of it isnt even freestyle. so now kenny i think you might need to rethink what freestyle sounds like.

i think that alot of dance music has a freestyle feel to it. the 80's r back in the fashion sense and i feel that alot of new freestyle-ish songs r gona come about this yr and next. mad props tothose who r tryin to make freestyle current.
 
1. Feel The Music
UGH NOT FREESTYLE
2. Better Than The Rest
NOT FREESTYLE
3. U Don't Feel It
FREESTYLE I WROTE IT I SHOULD KNOW
4. When Will I C U
FREESTYLE I WROTE IT I SHOULD KNOW
5. Love Conquers All
POP
6. Now That Ur Gone
BALLAD
7. One Day U
POP
8. Move Out The Way
CLUB
9. In A Manner
DEPECHE MODE REMAKE NOT FREESTYLE
10. Sexual Fantasy
FREESTYLE
11. Say The Word
POP
12. Feel The Music (spanish version feat. James Da Barba) UGH EVEN JAMES FROM DLG COULD NOT SAVE THIS SONG
13. In And Out
A MESSY BALLAD
PLEASE I KNOW THAT THIS MUSIC MEANS ALOT TO YOU GUYS AND IN SOME CASES YOU GUYS WANT TO FIGHT HARD FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN BUT DON'T TELL ME ABOUT WHAT HAS INCOMPASS OVER 15 YEARS OF MY LIFE THIS IS MY BLOOD AND SWEAT HERE I SHOULD AND DO KNOW WHAT IT IS
 
aim4night said:
so now kenny i think you might need to rethink what freestyle sounds like.
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UUUUUUUMMMMMMMM............NO.

I wasnt the one that called just about every dance song out there FREESTYLE.

I think you should RE-READ what I had said.
 
K7: You consider "U don't Feel It" freestyle and "IN a Manner" not freestyle? Is this the twilight zone? I'd compromise and say that neither of them are freestyle, but then that would leave the Forever album with only 1 freestyle song. I'm trying to give it more credit than that. Another point I was trying to make that no one refered back to was that it was the freestyle songs that TKA was most known for. The more freestyle the song, the more successful it was. Now I know that you feel that "Louder than Love" was not freestyle and it was one of your most successful records, but for some reason the whole world accepted it as freestyle while they will never accept "U Don't Feel It" as freestyle. Objectively comparing, "Louder than Love" sounded a lot more freestyle than "You don't feel it". Now granted, "Louder than Love" was not as hardcore freestyle as "Give Your Love to Me", but still more freestyle than anything on the Forever album except for "Sexual Fantasy".
 
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