My thoughts on freestyle...

[MIX1027FMDJ]

Of all the recent talk on this forum I wanted to just say a few things.
I am not an artist, however I am going to speak simply as a DJ and a DJ's perspective on this topic.

Here goes...

There have been very valid points said, however most have really not targeted the initial question which I think K was trying to get across. Now I have a high regard for K as an artist and performer in general, but also because he is a person who speaks from the heart about these things with passion.

Now...he deserves his say because I feel that it is simply valid.

Given that my say is this:

K has brought into the forefront, again, a real problem in the music community. But keep in mind, to me all this freestyle music is just dance music..simply music that you hear in the clubs like it has always been. The traditional model for a record to be broken is that it comes from the clubs FIRST, and then would trickle to radio, video and then other medias.

That simple transition model is not there anymore for many reasons, but before we even get to that point we need a record to play in the clubs. Back in the day a producer would bring in a reel to play in the club and see what the reaction would be..to my knowledge I do not know of that model being followed by many, some do, even with the advent of the home studio and so easy to prepare a cd to be tested in a club.

As I am going back to producing music, I will, trust me do what is correct as far as bringing a proper record to market. Given that, that should tell you that I look at projects as a business, yes I love the music, but it is a business first and foremost. If you do not understand that point, you have already lost the battle.

Without ranting on and on, I just want to say that you need to drop this STUPID freestyle moniker and rely on simply coming up with good dance music once again and then follow the proven way to market it. I am not going into how that is done because I am not writing an instructional piece here.

People get smart, get back to the fundamentals and things will start to happen again in the NYC dance music community...and remember NYC was the de facto standard for which dance music emanated to other places all over the world.

Follow the fundamentals, stop these "get rich quick" mentalities and put in the work, if not nothing will change and will only get worse.
Do it properly and things will change and for the better..

Best to all..

 

[MIX1027FMDJ]

Not even one comment good or bad...very interesting.....😕😕😕

Makes me say why even bother...

 

[taezee]

sorry bro if anything just merge this into the other thread since its referencing to K and that whole thing... and yes why even bother.. theres too much importance emphasised by some on just typing words here anyway.. as if the axis of the planet itself would shift much less bring freestyle back with the jewels of knowledge left on some thread on newyorkfreestyle.com ...I hardly believe that the same enthusiasim would apply to real life..outside away from the keyboard ..because if that was the case we would have multiple nobel prize winners as members here... the cure for cancer ..bin ladens whereabouts and world peace all in one week!!!

remember the clip from groundhog day bro.. and all the "NED RYERSONS" we deal with everyday.. who post up while insisting you must know who they are and "AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT" after all the blasse blah blah blah... blah hardee blah ... typed with such authority. I accomplish more in just reaching down and getting a good scratch on with my left nut then all that lol

 

[MIX1027FMDJ]

sorry bro if anything just merge this into the other thread since its referencing to K and that whole thing... and yes why even bother.. theres too much importance emphasised by some on just typing words here anyway.. as if the axis of the planet itself would shift much less bring freestyle back with the jewels of knowledge left on some thread on newyorkfreestyle.com ...I hardly believe that the same enthusiasim would apply to real life..outside away from the keyboard ..because if that was the case we would have multiple nobel prize winners as members here... the cure for cancer ..bin ladens whereabouts and world peace all in one week!!!
remember the clip from groundhog day bro.. and all the "NED RYERSONS" we deal with everyday.. who post up while insisting you must know who they are and "AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT" after all the blasse blah blah blah... blah hardee blah ... typed with such authority. I accomplish more in just reaching down and getting a good scratch on with my left nut then all that lol

I'll drink to that Taz..we will have more fun for sure..

 

[CPR Jose Ortiz]

Artists do NOT want to follow any model that involves actual work.
Artists are ok with doing things the easy way.
This means that the you tube, twitter, facebook and myspace era of distributing music will continue.

Instead of brining the song to the club they send it to your email box.
Instead of seeing the reaction of the audience in person they want to get a report from their frands who are made to call the radio station to stuff the ballot when the radio show is conducting a poll on their song; Not to add make fake requests as they conjure up a fake buzz.

You add the lack of desire to succeed and work ethic and you get no movement.

Ask K how many people have contacted him about his offer.

There should be hundreds of requests.

Something tells me it's not more that 3.

 

[DJ IMPACT]

Instead of seeing the reaction of the audience in person they want to get a report from their frands who are made to call the radio station to stuff the ballot when the radio show is conducting a poll on their song; Not to add make fake requests as they conjure up a fake buzz.

Dude as someone on the radio I can tell you this happens a lot and it's pathetic. Note to any aspiring artist who try this: Make sure your moronic friends wait till the station plays the record before they start calling in and saying how much they enjoyed the song! "Man that new song by .... was great!" How would you know dumbass? I haven't played it yet! lol
True story.

 

[NY Dance Music Coal]

T1,

I'd like to say more on this, but then like you had said "why bother"? 🙁

I've said my peace on the other thread regarding what I strongly believe is a needed change for the next generation which would mean a new sound and a "drop" of the freestyle name. But everytime I try to get that post across, it gets "vanished" with all of the KH, WS and K7 arguments which makes me wonder if anyone is "reading".
My answer is NOT the definitive one, but it is something to just put out there and see what comes out of it.

But yeah, based on what CPR had said along with Impact, there has to be a mentality change all around too in terms of being a "professional" about what has to be done and not just take the "easy" way out and in the process do things "half-assed".

UPDATE: K7 DID call me up! I did post on another thread about "earliest convenience" and I'll take the "fall" on that one.

 

[k7ktu]

my not calling you of yet sir is due too not reading pms sir i will return your call this week for sure.

as for what cpr asked other than tony santiago wanting to a speak on the subject no one has taken up my offer not one even after my internet radio interview as well

 

[CPR Jose Ortiz]

The Artists that always try to compare themselves to TKA and George Lamond should be the first to volunteer to what seems to be sort of an apprentice role.

But they won't because it requires some actual work on their part or they think they know it all.
Nevertheless I knew what the responce would be.

Tony can count my show and it's members in for whatever panel or summit he would liike to put together. We will do our best to attend.

I'm sure some of my Artists friends will attend as well.

And DJ Impact; Thanks for the info! Thank goodness I finally get some back up on this as it doesn't allow us to get a sample of what the audience truly likes and wants to hear.

 

[Kenny Guido]

tony, the world is different today. clubs arent the place to break a song: you tube is, along with other simalar sites. Clubs arent the same like they were 25 years ago. case in point, look at the late 70;s. new york city was going to hell in a hand basket and clubs popped up left and right. people wanted to leave thier problems so they went to the clubs to have a good time. nowadays, people dont want to go out to clubs that often. long island used to have tons of clubs. massapequa had 2 clubs. today, theres none. on hempstead turnpike, there used to be 5 clubs all within 2 miles of each other. today, theres only 1, and its a gay club now. uncle sams/sin city/spit/god/ucatan liquor stand is a shoe store now. its just not the same.

 

[taezee]

music today isnt classical inspiring masterpieces..made with blood sweat and tears.. that you will be replaying for years its hit and run... its flavor of the week.. three lines repeated over and over with a drum loop.. some stupid catch phrase .. if not an 80s ballad over a techno beat..again flavor of the week.. (pa pa pa pa pa poker face ... pa pa pa pa pa poker face.. and everybody going "gaga" over nonsense) this week it may be boom boom pow.. next week who knows .. but someone somewhere is recording the next stupid little jingle not talking about it... in a world where a 6 year old can create a work of art with photoshop in 12 minutes, you wanna continue to discuss the properties of acrylic paints vs oils on a canvas .. and then how you can bring the real arts back and make money of it ???? even if you had a couple of modern day Michael Angelos , Leonardo Da Vincis,or Salvador Dalis available.. who would care??? the world isnt so cultured now and would probably just pefer to watch some crew from the bronx spray paint a train..

 

[Kid Heartbreak]

who would care??? the world isnt so cultured now and would probably just pefer to watch some crew from the bronx spray paint a train..

But even a street tagging crew has more creativity than most of the music that hits nowadays. That's where the true underlying cause of the problem is. The only music that's capable of getting any kind of exposure in today's world is that what's on (and thus created by or by the direction of) big record labels and thus big multimillion dollar corporations. Rap would have never made it to the big stage if it was originally being created like that. And ultimately in the end, the mainstream is what wound up ruining rap, at least real hip hop.

 

[NY Dance Music Coal]

tony, the world is different today. clubs arent the place to break a song: you tube is, along with other simalar sites. Clubs arent the same like they were 25 years ago. case in point, look at the late 70;s. new york city was going to hell in a hand basket and clubs popped up left and right. people wanted to leave thier problems so they went to the clubs to have a good time. nowadays, people dont want to go out to clubs that often. long island used to have tons of clubs. massapequa had 2 clubs. today, theres none. on hempstead turnpike, there used to be 5 clubs all within 2 miles of each other. today, theres only 1, and its a gay club now. uncle sams/sin city/spit/god/ucatan liquor stand is a shoe store now. its just not the same.

You're right Kenny, things are MUCH different now than they were when freestyle broke out during the early 80's

There WAS huge club support (went to a freestyle show at the Palladium back in 1990....that club was huge to begin with and it was STILL packed!), people would hear the music (as BRAND NEW) on stations like the original 'KTU and Hot 103/97. Record stores had brisk sales of freestyle 12"s then.

While there have been past arguments about the point where freestyle had fallen, other aspects included SoundScan (which never favored ANY sort of dance music, let alone freestyle) and the Telecommunications Act of 1996, thus giving corporations multiple ownership of radio stations in given markets; thus losing radio's "soul" and why all the terrestrial stations out there sound "cookie cutter".

It certainly hasn't helped freestyle, in terms of future growth, that stations like 'KTU and Pulse still stick with the 80's stuff and do nothing new. I would expect a 'KTU staying old, being what they are now...rhythmic A/C, but Pulse? I mean, Carlos Berrios purchased air time to promote his CD's; ONE track could have made rotation.

Funny thing I remember Joel Salkowitz, during the Winter Music Conference on the radio panel, say that going back to the clubs could be the way to break out new music again. I was scratching my head on that one being, as you've pointed out, that clubs have been diminishing. Also add to the fact that radio NOW is not like radio then. Hot 103/97 could have afforded to send a couple of people out to different venues to "research" the crowd and see what they were dancing to. Now, with cut backs happening all over, that "luxury" can't be afforded anymore.

YouTube is a start. So are all of the Internet streamers out there doing something. I've told Jayquan (last week at Urban Latino Radio) this and I'll tell it to you guys...the future of music is here now with those streamers. While you should still send your material out to CPR Jose Ortiz and Impact (and others doing similar shows), it also helps to zip out that file over to stations such as freestyle.fm, Urban Latino Radio (Rio Lopez), and WEPA-FM. The best advantage to that is, you're getting a WORLD audience! It's not just a NYC, Philly, Miami thing!

Go to a big upload site like Sharespace, load your music up and get the necessary contacts! Because down the road, terrestrial radio WON'T matter. Satellite radio? Just a matter of "how long" since they're losing money hand and foot.

Once 4G technology gets further out to the masses and they have the streaming car stereos installed as "standard" in future automobiles, then the future of music (as a whole) will be there along with the iTunes, social networks and YouTube. Terrestrial radio WILL still exist for local stuff, but musically the shift will go there.

And I still stand strong that if "freestyle" (notice the quotes) is going to exist for future generations (for the purposes of this, I'm thinking the current teens and twenty-somethings, just as it was for most of us 25 years ago), then it can't really sound like it did for our generation. It would have to be an "evolution" and that's okay! Let a new "sound" come about with the next generation leading the way. And for that next generation...take the lessons learned by those from the past that "built" the structure. I liked the example with "Groundhog Day" (Tony Rocca had a good followup) where the first time he woke up, Bill Murray stepped into a "puddle", but the next time, he didn't.

We cannot afford to step into that puddle again.

As always, sorry for the length. But deep down we all inherently know what has to happen. Now if only the money was there.....

 

[NY Dance Music Coal]

music today isnt classical inspiring masterpieces..made with blood sweat and tears.. that you will be replaying for years its hit and run... its flavor of the week.. three lines repeated over and over with a drum loop.. some stupid catch phrase .. if not an 80s ballad over a techno beat..again flavor of the week.. (pa pa pa pa pa poker face ... pa pa pa pa pa poker face.. and everybody going "gaga" over nonsense) this week it may be boom boom pow.. next week who knows .. but someone somewhere is recording the next stupid little jingle not talking about it... in a world where a 6 year old can create a work of art with photoshop in 12 minutes, you wanna continue to discuss the properties of acrylic paints vs oils on a canvas .. and then how you can bring the real arts back and make money of it ???? even if you had a couple of modern day Michael Angelos , Leonardo Da Vincis,or Salvador Dalis available.. who would care??? the world isnt so cultured now and would probably just pefer to watch some crew from the bronx spray paint a train..

Taezee, I agree!

If anything, look at what's big right now in music....phonetically spelling out "If You Seek Amy", songs about a girl taking off clothes to become famous (Lily Allen "The Fear"), "Yeah I'm That Bitch" - Livvi Franc and a NEW one by Lady Gaga, with the lyrics "I wanna take a ride on your disco stick!". Granted, there was always a "shock" value in music, even to the days of jazz in the 20's and 30's...but it is to the point right now that everyone is focusing on "shock" and missing the real point....bring out GOOD music.

Then again, "shock" sells. What's good quality music if we can't make that fast buck right now! 🙄

 

[CultureKlashJEFF]

I know some of you are tired of hearing about LADY GAGA by now,
but I'm gonna use her as an example.
The truth is, she didn't just come out of nowhere. Like many of our 80's Dance/Freestyle artists, she was busting her ass doing the small club gigs the old fashioned way for a couple years before her first single even hit.

Almost all her stuff is written & produced by her, and aside from her Electro-Dance-Pop sound, she is also a classically trained artist that used to perform live with her piano.
She's also written songs for some of the big names in music, and was told "NO!" by many big execs.

I (like many) were into her music waaay before anyone really knew who she was. When she was underground.
I used to feel bad & say: "Man, I wish artists like her would get recognized, as today's world rarely opens the doors to Dance artists like they used to." And then slowly but surely, doing the club gigs, hitting up the internet, promotional banners, promoting the hell out of herself, she caught the ear of Akon, toured with NKOTB (whom we all know are from the oldschool era & toured with many Freestyle greats - Sweet Sensation, George Lamond, Brenda K, etc) & then "BAM!" 2-3yrs later - her first single hit.

I personally didn't think it was gonna hit the way it did, but her WORK paid off. Then an album, 3-4 #1 hits on Billboard, being nominated for a Grammy, she's becoming a star.
Not bad for a girl who just turned 23.

And as for her crazy fashion sense? Gee Madonna, David Bowie, and our very own SAFIRE come to mind. People criticized them too. 😉

The point is, if our Freetsyle artists want to survive:
1. They gotta work their asses off as they did back in da day.

2. Stay fresh, & current, (how do u think Madonna survived all these years, and she came from the clubs too?)

3. Just cause you started in Freetsyle doesn't mean you have to STAY IN THAT GENRE FOREVER. Look at Marc, India, Taylor Dayne, etc, etc. they branched out & took risks. You gotta go with what's hot now or completely create something new or U WONT SURVIVE!

4. Having an 80's flair isn't a bad thing. 80's is hot now. If ur a pioneer of that era, having 80's influenced sounds on ur new record will most likely work. 😉

5. Romantic & heart-felt lyrics STILL work today. ("Bleeding Love").
But so do SIMPLE & silly lyrics. People say Freestyle was all about "sappy love lyrics", not true! "Diamond Girl", "Hungry For Your Love", "Point Of No Return"?? - Very dirty songs, lol. The simplicity of "Funk Boutique" & "When I Hear Music"?? - With lyrics like: "I went to the Disco, and couldn't believe my eyes. I looked on the dancefloor & saw so many guys." - So simple yet effective!😎
(And notice these are some of the biggest hits of this genre, which are just as popular today, even among today's kids)

6. Let's not forget that "Pop" means POPULAR. And Freestyle is a part of the melting pot we call Pop. Especially during it's peak. Nothing wrong with being Top 40. It will pay the bills. 😎
If NKOTB can do it, so can many of our Freestyle greats.

 

[MIX1027FMDJ]

tony, the world is different today. clubs arent the place to break a song: you tube is, along with other simalar sites. Clubs arent the same like they were 25 years ago. case in point, look at the late 70;s. new york city was going to hell in a hand basket and clubs popped up left and right. people wanted to leave thier problems so they went to the clubs to have a good time. nowadays, people dont want to go out to clubs that often. long island used to have tons of clubs. massapequa had 2 clubs. today, theres none. on hempstead turnpike, there used to be 5 clubs all within 2 miles of each other. today, theres only 1, and its a gay club now. uncle sams/sin city/spit/god/ucatan liquor stand is a shoe store now. its just not the same.

Kenny..

I will agree to a point, however the "bad times" you mentioned in NYC were nothing and had nothing to do with the rise of the number of clubs in the city here.

The reason places like Studio 54 opened in 77' was because of a couple of things that came together at that particular point in time. Before 54 there were underground clubs and lounges and 54 was the first "super club" here in the city. Things like the "beautiful people", the "drugs", the "sex", the "city' and of course the MUSIC.

All those key components were put together and THEN the final element, MANAGEMENT who KNEW how operate a successful nightlife business.

So FFWD to today, we have pretty much the same items EXCEPT the management and a lot of the music.

See if some artists were actually smart they would have taken K's offer up already, but none have to my knowledge...much to learn coming from that offer of K's.

I as a DJ am VERY selective of what I play because I actually know music, played and wrote scores..so my play list is top notch. Now, I play a lot of new stuff but the majority of new stuff in this country is weak so I have to go overseas for much of my play list.

But without making a novel...Kenny the problems that exist today are very easy to repeat...you go back to the playbook and repeat.

Only thing is that you need good players and a good coach to get to the championship.

 

[MIX1027FMDJ]

the world isnt so cultured now and would probably just pefer to watch some crew from the bronx spray paint a train..

LMAO...what a great ACCURATE analogy Taz..

 

[taezee]

with all due respect ... what future???? what next generation?? the shit doesnt even exist now!!!!!!!! what are we gonna do pull a jurrassic park??? pull some freestyle DNA out of a fossil vynly and make it come to life for the "future"??? were gonna save the teens of the world with our 80s flashback???

excuse me one moment... gonna go bang my head on a wall for a few seconds..................................................... K im back

but I cant type too good now blurry cant see the keys straight.............. aaaarrrrrrrrrrrggghhhhhhoooo arrrrrghalaaaaa blaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!! lucky i got my hair cut short today or Id be pulling it out !!! if I have to read one more entry starting with "things are different today" or "underlying problem" or demise this and back in the day that ... Im gonna be on CNN surrounded by a swat team in a barricaded room!!!

freestyle is not akin to "save the whales" for a cause to join...

the main difference being at least theres still whales swimming around that the japanese havent killed yet in antartica

there was an obituary written a couple of decades ago some of you either missed it or in some cases werent even in kindergarten yet so you couldnt have read it

FREESTYLE DIES

what you have today is playback of that era the nostalgia like looking through a scrapbook and seeing pictures of those no longer here.. you feel them..sometimes so vivid you can touch them..memories

our scrapbook may be listening to a hot remix a showcase weekend..flashback shows or just your collection of mp3s theres nothing wrong with that you keep it alive on some level this way..





but its not coming back................ever

 

[taezee]

LMAO...what a great ACCURATE analogy Taz..

glad that you can "get it" right away

of course KHB is really a robot not a human who has only 6 or seven preprogrammed responses one of them being "peeps dont know or realize the underlying problem is......"

yo KID time for an intervention!!! lolol

 

[CultureKlashJEFF]

glad that you can "get it" right away
of course KHB is really a robot not a human who has only 6 or seven preprogrammed responses one of them being "peeps dont know or realize the underlying problem is......"
yo KID time for an intervention!!! lolol

LMAO!!!
As for ur previous post Tae, I agree, & I've said it on here many times before.
The state of Freestyle music will NEVER be the same as it once was. Just like Disco, & Motown, etc, it's time has come & gone.
End of story.
Nothing wrong with enjoying the music through nostalgia. (That's what we most do here anyways, lol)

BUT, that doesn't mean that the talented artists of the genre cannot come out with something fresh & new. Just cause the genre died, doesn't mean the artist have to.
Diana Ross (Motown), Donna Summer (Disco), etc, are still releasing albums & touring. Yeah they'll sing their classics, but they got new current shit out too.
I DON'T want my Freestyle favs releasing Freestyle. What's done is done.
Gimme something new. 😱
I for one am looking forward to the new Brenda K project as well as India's, Expose's, & Company B's.😀